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Comparison of a Welmar and Knight upright piano

Comparison of a Welmar and Knight Upright Piano


Models from the 60s to the c1980s

Welmar Upright Piano 1976

Welmar_120

Knight K10 Upright Piano c1967 – c1987.

knight1

Introduction

Both pianos are well made British pianos with an even touch and tone.
Knight pianos were sold alongside grand pianos in Steinway hall during this period and sold around the world as one of the most stable uprights available.

DETAILS


Welmar

RRP: £3200 (2013) when precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: 121 hight x 143 length x 61 depth

Knight

RRP: £2,000 – £3,300 (2012) precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: 112 hight x 140 length x 56 depth

THE TOUCH


The Welmar’s touch

welmar_upright_keys

The welmar uprights have an even touch, with a well adjusted action. Similar to the Knight pianos.

The Knight’s touch

knight_keys

Knight uprights have shorter keys but a well balanced action giving a very responsive touch

THE ACTION


The Welmar’s action

welmar_dampers_01

Slightly more mellow than Knights. The tone on the shorter Welmar uprights is very even, and superb on the taller ones.

The Knight’s action

knight_dampers_01

The bass strings are designed so that they cross the treble strings at a greater angle, thus they are longer. This extra length allows the Knight K10 to match the tone of bigger upright pianos such as the U1. Different Knight uprights may vary between a moderately mellow to a bright tone. This is often to do with the hardness of the hammer, and the pianos can often be toned. Knight uprights may be smaller than Yamaha ones but the richness of tone is comparable.

THE CASING


The Welmar’s casing

welmar_book_holders

The Knight’s casing

knight_book-holders

Neither piano originally came with book holders but due to the thickness of the wood material of the music desk, book holders can be fitted.

PEDALS


The Welmar’s Pedals

Welmar_Pedal_System

Most Welmar upright pianos do not have a third practice pedal, however, a practice lever may be fitted for an extra cost of £200+VAT. This system is the same as found in most modern pianos but is activated with a hand operated lever rather than a pedal.

The Knight’s Pedals

knight_pedals

Again, some Knight upright pianos do not have a third practice pedal, however, a practice lever may be fitted for an extra cost of £200+VAT. This system is the same as found in most modern pianos but is activated with a hand operated lever rather than a pedal.

CONCLUSION


Both of these makes are regarded by tuners and teachers as some of the best modern British uprights ever made. They are both extremely stable and are easily tuned. Knights usually have a brighter tone. The tall Welmars are among the best uprights in existence. So both are highly recommended.

NB buying a good used piano from this period is far better than buying a new piano such as the Yamaha B3 that has a plywood soundboard, making the tone sound dull in comparison.

Steinway Model B & Yamaha S6 Handcrafted Comparison

The Steinway model B grand is Germany 1980 fully restored in every detail. With new bass and treble strings it has been refinished exactly as a new piano would be. It has new Steinway hammers, shanks and rollers. The action has been weighted and is regulated to feel exactly like a new action would. Very accurately adjusted including turning the una-corda pedal so when it moves over it makes a different tone.

Tone wise [1:58] is is mellow with slightly more clarity in tone. The treble sings very clearly and the top treble is slightly brighter.

Conclusion

Both are exceptional pianos and fine to play. The Steinway just about wins in the tone and tonal colour comparison, Yamaha on touch. However this is splitting hairs. You’ll certainly pay less for the Yamaha. The Steinway is a better investment on resale, potentially worth more in the future than what you paid for it! We have many top quality pianos for sale in our Oxford and Sevenoaks showrooms. Click here to view our stock.

Click here to see all of our pianos for sale:
Click here to see more videos on our YouTube channel:

View our current stock with photos and videos.

Yamaha S6 Japanese grand piano

Built to a similar template, both pianos are semi-concert or small-concert hall instruments measuring between 211-12 centremetres (6ft 9inches).

You’ll pay less for the Yamaha although there aren’t many available on the second hand market. This is the first one we’ve ever had.

The Yamaha in the video was made in about 2006 and had about less than 1.5 hours of playing every day. Therefore it is pretty immaculate and has had very little use. We did very litlte toning and hardly did any regulation as due to the lack of use, it was in very good condition. Only fine regulation was required.

Sound wise [0:45] the Yamaha S6 is mellow in tone with a rich tenor area

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IN STOCK: Steinway Model O and M grands – comparison

Marcus discusses the difference between a Steinway model O and a Steinway model M, both fully restored from similar periods. The Steinway model O is from 1922 whilst the model M is from 1929. A close and similar period of Steinway manufacture.

We would like to add that these pianos come with a 10 year guarantee for faults in mechanism not related to humidity. Each piano has new pins and a new pinblock where necessary to ensure the piano stays in tune, damaged felts and action parts have been replaced.

An interesting section of this video is the tone comparison between both pianos, a longer Feurich and similar Feurich grand piano. Feurich make exceptional pianos in the mid-price range of the market, well worth looking into if budget constraints apply. However, a Steinway will always maintain its value more comparatively to most other brands, even top brands.

Marcus also highlights that older pianos have a lighter touch, partly due to manufacture, partly due to wearing in of the piano. See the full video for more Marcus’ description.

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Yamaha GB1 and Kawai GM-10K Comparison. Review

Yamaha GB1 and Kawai GM-10K comparison

In order to review the Yamaha GB1 baby grand, we’ve compared it to a similarly priced baby grand, the Kawai GM-10. Both pianos are assembled in Indonesia though we are informed that all Kawai parts are made in Japan so we assume that this is probably the case with the Yamaha. However we believe this review shows some important differences. The Yamaha GB1 is Yamaha’s cheapest baby grand and it is very similar to the Kawai in quality, though the Yamaha has left out one important feature – the sliding music desk. There are some other differences too, illustrated here:

Yamaha GB1 baby grand piano
Yamaha GB1 grand
RRP £9789 (2013)
Length 149cm (4ft 10 1/2 in)

Kawai GM-10K grand piano

Kawai GM-10K grand
RRP £9650 (2013)
Length 150cm (4ft 11in)

Hammers

Yamaha pianos, yamaha GB1 review, Yamaha GB1, steinway pianos

Basic simple hammers. Only time will tell what quality
they are, but not having the under-covering certainly
means they are not so expensive.

Kawai GM-10K grand pianoUnder-covered hammers. With good hammers the tone is maintained over many years.

Music Desk

Yamaha baby grand piano, GB1 grand piano, steinway pianosFixed music desk which lifts out rather than slides. We
think this is a very inconvenient economy; no other
grand pianos are designed in this way.

Kawai GM-10K grand piano

Sliding music desk found on all other grand pianos;
necessary if you want to adjust the distance to
accommodate your eyesight; most pianists use this facility.

Tuning

GB1 tuning mistake, Marcus Roberts, Steinway pianos, yamaha upright and grand

Difficulty in tuning due to the high rail in front of the tuning pins. It’s actually impossible to get the tuning lever on at the angle shown, which is the normal angle for the top treble. Instead the lever has to be held at the opposite angle to that which is best for tuning. This makes fine tuning awkward though possible.

Kawai GM-10K grand piano

Normal design allowing the piano to be tuned easily and
at the right angle.

CONCLUSION
Both these small grand pianos are technically well made for the price range. We have chosen the Kawai mainly because of the user and tuner-friendly traditional sliding music desk as shown above.

Comparison between a Yamaha U1H and Bechstein 10 upright piano

COMPARISON BETWEEN A YAMAHA U1H AND A BECHSTEIN UPRIGHT PIANO


Yamaha U1H

Yamaha U1 Upright Piano

Bechstein 10

Bechstein 10 Upright Piano

Introduction

We’ve written this page to help you decide which piano to choose between. Highly regarded by musicians as some of the best uprights available under £5000 (2012). We’ve sold over 100 Yamaha U1H uprights and a similar number of Bechstein upright pianos, and regard them both as an excellent choice. For more information on Yamaha follow click here. For more information on Bechstein pianos, go to this link.

DETAILS


Yamaha

MODEL: U1H (c. 1965)
PRICE: £2,600-£3,200 (2013) when precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: height 121 x width 151 x depth 63

Bechstein

MODEL: Bechstein 10 (c.1902-1930)
PRICE: £3,500 – £5,500 (2013) precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: height 129 x width 146 x depth 60

THE TOUCH


The U1H’s touch

Yamaha U1 Keys

One of the main reasons clients choose the Yamaha U1 is because it has a responsive touch. Our U1 and U3 uprights have had very little use and will not require any maintainance for at least 20 years of normal playing.

The Bechstein 10’s touch

Bechstein 10 Keys
The Bechstein model 10 has a delighful touch which allows for an excellent dynamic range.

THE ACTION


The U1H’s action

Yamaha U1 Hammers

Suited to all types of playing, the Yamaha U1 upright has a clear, leaning towards bright sound. It produces the kind of sound that would contrast well enough to be heard in an ensemble and has enough depth to effectively reproduce classical music. On that note, we regularly hire Yamaha U1 pianos to the world’s top concert pianists for rehearsal practices.

The Bechstein 10’s action

Bechstein 10 Hammers

An exquisite sweet mellow tone with a rich singing treble. In our opinion one of the best sounding upright pianos. The bass strings are straight strung but as the piano is taller than the U1, the string length is virtually the same. The straight stringing makes the tone more even and allows the sound to pass through a sweeter area of the soundboard.

THE CASING


The U1H’s casing

Yamaha U1 Bookholder

Many musicians insist on these; unfortunately the music stand is too thin to have fitted, though it is more ridged to try to compensate. Practically no modern pianos are fitted with bookholders as manufacturers fear they will damage the case by scratching.

The Bechstein 10’s Casing

Bechstein 10 Bookholder

Standard on this and nearly all traditional pianos. They hold the music page and prevent it from turning. You will definitely need these if you use thick books such as hymn books.

PEDALS


The U1H Pedals

Yamaha U1 Pedals

One benefit of the Yamaha U3 piano is that they mostly come fitted with a practice pedal which inserts a felt between the hammers and the strings. Although the Bechstein piano does not include a practice mechanism, one can be easily fitted, current charge £200+VAT (2012)

The Bechstein 10 Pedals

Bechstein 10 Pedals

Although the Bechstein piano does not include a practice mechanism, one can be easily fitted, current charge £200+VAT (2012)

Conclusion


If you require an all round modern tone then the Yamaha is our suggested choice. However, if you already play and are interested in a rich warm mellower tone then you might prefer a Bechstien or other traditional German piano.

Comparison of a Yamaha U3h and a Wendl & Lung 122 Upright Piano

quick

Comparison of a Yamaha U3h and a Wendl & Lung 122 Upright Piano


Yamaha U3h

yamaha_u3h_upright_piano003

Wendl & Lung 122

wendl_&lung_122_0453

Introduction

Many musicians regard these as the best uprights available under £4000. We’ve sold over 100 Yamaha U3H and about 30 Wendl and Lung/Feurich 122 upright pianos, and regard them both as an excellent choice. NB since 2011 Wendl & Lung have amalgamated with Feurich and now use that name.

DETAILS


Yamaha

MODEL: U3H
RRP: £3000- £3500 (2013)(When precisely reconditioned)
DIMENSIONS: 130H x 154L x 65D

Wendl & lung

MODEL: 122
RRP: £3300- 3450 (2013)(when new)
DIMENSIONS: 122H x 152L x 60D

STRING LENGTH


The U3H’s strings

u3h_soundboard_09

Smaller than the U3 but with the same quality. Maximum bass string length 120.6cm, tenor 92cm. The U3H sounds strong in the bass but improves greatly when fitted with top quality German bass strings (cost £750 +VAT inc fitting).

The 122’s strings

wendl_&lung_soundboard

Maximum bass string length 120cm, tenor 91cm. Almost the same string length as the U3, since the strings have a greater angle across the piano. Deep rich and even bass and excellent break point.

THE HAMMERS


The U3H’s hammers

U3H_hammers_3421

Good quality hammers; as they have been played for some years, they are very even, but without refacing they are softer in tone. This is frequently preferred by musicians as the sound is more classical.

The 122’s hammers

122_hammers_345

Well toned with clear bright sound, but not played in.They are already excellent and will become more even toned over the years.

CASING


The U3H’s book holders

u3h_casing_90345

Book holders difficult to fit: Used by most musicians,these can be fitted but there is a risk of damaging the music desk as it is plastic, too thin and brittle.

The 122’s book holders

122_casing_0945

Book holders: These can be fitted for £35 extra, as the desk is much thicker. Modern pianos are not fitted with book holders because of the risk of damaging the polish, so if fitted take care to make sure they are folded sideways before closing the lid.

The U3H’s top lid

yamaha_top_lid

Hinged top lid; if any water gets on the top of the piano and goes down the hinge it will seriously damage the dampers.

The 122’s top lid

wendl_&lung_top_lid

One-piece top lid; more sensible design, though must have enough space above the piano to open upwards for tuning.

THE ACTION


The U3H’s action

yamaha_action_0809

Celeste (practice felt) fitted with wing nut for removal when tuning; a bit awkward.

The 122’s action

wendl_&lung_action_03

Celeste just slots in; this removes in an instant and is the best design so far on any upright.

CONCLUSION


The U3H is a popular musician’s upright it is highly recommended both for it’s touch, tone and stability.

Wendl & Lung 122 piano has great integrity, at least equal to the Yamaha U3H. These new pianos are not as well played as the U3H but, none the less they have an excellent touch and tone and, are very stable.

Comparison of a used Yamaha U1 and a Knight Upright Piano

Comparison of a used Yamaha U1 and a Knight Upright Piano


Yamaha U1

Yamaha U1 Upright Piano

Knight k10

Knight K10 Upright Piano

Introduction

We’ve written this page to help you decide which piano to choose between these two pianos, which many musician regard as two of the best uprights available under £4000 (2013). We’ve sold over 100 Yamaha U1G, H or A uprights and a similar number of Knight K10 & 20 upright pianos, and regard both makes of this period as an excellent choice. The information below assumes that the pianos have not had very much use and are in top condition.

DETAILS


Yamaha

MODELS: U1G, H & A Upright pianos c1965 – 1985
RRP: £2,600-£3,750 (2013) when precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: 121 high x 151 long x 63 deep.

Knight

MODELS: K10 & 20 c1970 – 1985
RRP: £2,000 – £3,300 (2013) precisely reconditioned
DIMENSIONS: 112 high x 140 long x 56 deep

THE TOUCH


The U1’s touch

Yamaha U1 Keys

One of the main reasons clients choose the Yamaha U1 is because it has a responsive touch. Our U1 and U3 uprights have had very little use and will not require any maintainance for at least 20 years of normal playing

The K10’s touch

Knight K10 Keys

A well balanced touch with great range of expression. Knight piano actions are very well designed and wear slowly.

THE ACTION


The U1’s action

Yamaha U1 Hammers

Suited to all types of playing, the Yamaha U1 upright has a clear, leaning towards bright sound. It produces the kind of sound that would contrast well enough to be heard in an ensemble and has enough depth to effectively reproduce classical music. On that note, we regularly hire Yamaha U1 pianos to the world’s top concert pianists for rehearsal practices.

The K10’s action

Knight K10 Hammers

The bass strings are designed so that they cross the treble strings at a greater angle, thus they are longer than most pianos of this height. This extra length allows the Knight K10 to match the tone of bigger upright pianos such as the U1. Different Knight uprights may vary between a moderately mellow to a bright tone depending on the hardness of the hammer. A piano can always be toned down to be more mellow.

THE CASING


The U1’s casing

Yamaha U1 Bookholder

Yamaha upright music desks are thin polyester. It is very difficult to fit book holders as the polyester easily cracks when drilled.

The K10’s Casing

Knight K10 Bookholder

Normal wood design allows drilling for book holder placement.

Restored Steinway model O and Bechstein model A comparison

RESTORED STEINWAY MODEL O AND BECHSTEIN MODEL A COMPARISON


Steinway model O (1920s)

Steinway O-151bb

Bechstein model A (1905)

Bechstein A-1001

Introduction

We’ve written this page to help you decide which piano to choose between these two pianos, which many musician regard as two of the best uprights available under £4000 (2013). We’ve sold over 100 Yamaha U1G, H or A uprights and a similar number of Knight K10 & 20 upright pianos, and regard both makes of this period as an excellent choice. The information below assumes that the pianos have not had very much use and are in top condition.

DETAILS


Steinway Model O

PRICE: £18,000 – 30,000 (2013) restored or reconditioned.
DIMENSIONS: height 97 x width 146 x depth 180

Steinway grand pianos made during this period generally have a very rich tone throughout their range. However, they have often originally been bought by musicians who have played them extensively, as a result they may have worn hammers making them sound weak or dull. Many Steinways made during this period will have been fully restored, the quality can’t always be guaranteed, depending largely on the restoration quality. The variety is considerable.

Bechstein Model A

PRICE: £9.000 – 19,000 (2013) restored or reconditioned.
DIMENSIONS: height 97 x width 141 x depth 181.

Bechstein grand pianos made during this period vary a lot, they are less likely to have been restored. They have a beautiful even tone and are generally less powerful than Steinways, often making them more suitable for smaller rooms.

THE TOUCH


The model O’s touch

steinway-tone

Steinway grand pianos made during this period should have a very responsive touch slightly lighter than a modern piano.

The model A’s touch

Bechstein-Keys-Close-up

Bechstein grand pianos made during this period require lighter hammers than modern ones and the touch is ideal for those preferring a fluid easy feel.

THE ACTION


The Steinway’s action

hammers-steinway
If the hammers are well voiced, the tone is clear and bell-like, very even throughout the range and capable of being sweet, soft and also capable of great power.

The Bechstein’s action

bechstein hammers

If you’ve never played a well voiced Bechstein then we recommend trying one. They are unique with a rich romantic tone.

BOOK HOLDERS


Important

Book Holders Unfortunately few grand pianos have bookholders. This is not a problem with many music books but can cause issues with chord books, hymnals and some modern bound sheet music. We often fit these for musicians.

CONCLUSION


Steinways being such a well known make throughout the world inevitably have the higher price tag. However, the higher price does not necessarily mean that the quality is better, and both makes have their strong points. We recommend you try one alongside the other as the best way to form a conclusion.

Comparison between a Shigeru Kawai 2011 & Steinway model O grand pianos

As Marcus discusses, both pianos are designed to the highest standard. It is difficult to say which piano is better. The more modern Shigeru Kawai is likely to have a ‘slightly’ more sensitive touch. Whilst the Steinway model O is a matured instrument, especially the soundboard. Which we have yet to replace, but repair. So as to preserve the original tone, and woods. Which at the period these grand pianos were made, was a very high standard.

We recommend coming to try both for yourself. As Marcus points out the tone of a Kawai is rich, generally softer, whereas a Steinway sings, with brilliant yet more dominance. Room size may come in to play, as a large grand piano with a powerful tone will comfortably play in a mid-large sized room whereas a softer German piano like a Bluther IV grand piano suits smaller rooms. Also shown by Marcus.

We would like to show you more of our pianos in detail in our shops and showrooms both in Oxford and Sevenoaks. Please come and play each piano to see for yourself.

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Bosendorfer 170 & Steinway model M Comparison

Both pianos are 170 cm long 5″7′ long. Both restored with perfect ivory keys, new German strings.

The Steinway grand has been restored to the original design with German Abel hammers, German strings, and felt colour matching. Also included is a Canadian maplewood multilayered pinblock for extra tuning durability.

Steinway made this Rosewood two pedal piano in Hamburg in 1925, Bosendorfer in 1916.  In their Vienna factory.

Steinway toned throughout including unacorda pedal toning. With original Abel hammers, correct for the period.

The height of  the Steinway can be raised with castor cups, as is quite low.

Toning the 'Una Corda' pedal

Bosendorfer have included 3 pedals, one extra middle ‘sostenuto’ pedal. Used to sustain notes underneath a passage, usually a bass pedal. Recommended for concert pianists. However, rarely implemented on many pianos, therefore redundant on grade pieces, and not required. Una corda pedal includes a unique variation to tone that can be heard around 2:00, a softer tone than without the una corda.

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Comparison between Yamaha S6 and Steinway model B grand pianos

These top quality pianos are similar in length, 211-212 centimeters long. Marcus compares them in this video.

A fully restored Steinway model B grand piano is in the top price band for a fully restored piano, whereas a handmade Yamaha S6 is rarer.

Both pianos are in immaculate condition, the 2006 Yamaha S6 was hardly used by its previous owner, and is as it was when purchased. The Steinway has undergone extensive restoration including new parts.

In conclusion 

Steinway about wins on tone and, and tonal colour. Yamaha wins on touch. However if you are thinking of future investment value, Steinway wins outright. Steinway has a dominant name, fetching a higher value even when 100 years.

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Feurich Grand & Upright Pianos

Comparison between Feurich 161 and 178 grand pianos

Brief history


Feurich are an Austro-German firm. The Feurich piano is made by a company that is an amalgamation of two firms: Wendl &Lung and Feurich. It is the ideal match with Wendl & Lung’s dedicated team of young musicians and technical staff whose goal is to produce top quality grand and upright pianos at affordable prices, and Feurich’s experience as top manufacturers for generations. The cheaper models are made in a factory which is in China, but the piano is designed by and under the strict quality control of European technicians. Jamie Cullum recently (2011) bought a restored 1920s Feurich from us. See his testimonial here.

feurich logo on piano frame

The tone


The pianos are rich and mellow, with a subtle ‘European’ quality, and the action smooth and responsive. We hold stock of the Feurich Professional I grand piano, Feurich Professional II, and also the upright 122 Universal. They provide an excellent alternative to the new Yamaha range, are more subtle in tone and are the choice of an increasing number of musicians. See also our comparison of Feurich uprights with Yamaha.

Models of Feurich grand pianos


feurich 162 grand piano in black

Dynamic I, 162

black feurich 179 grand piano

Dynamic II, 179

feurich model 218 grand piano in black

Concert I, 218

Models of Feurich upright pianos


feurich 115 upright piano in black

Premiere, 115

feurich 122 upright piano in black

Universal, 122

feurich 125 upright piano in black

Design, 125

feurich 133 upright piano in black

Concert, 133

Comparison between a Feurich 178 and a 161 grand pianos


Steinway Grand Pianos for Sale | Steinway & Sons

Thank you for coming onto our Steinway grand page. We buy, restore and sell over 15 Steinway grand pianos each year and constantly try to improve our standards by attending Steinway and Renner courses regularly. We are especially fastidious in making sure the touch and tone are as fine and possible.

We also have an in-house traditional French polishing team and also commission other companies if we need a modern polyester black finish.

We have over 50 videos which we hope will help you understand Steinway restoration. Please see our video channel.

Help in choosing a restored or used Steinway grand piano

Comparison Between Steinway Grand Pianos: S, M & O

Common models


  • Model S 5ft 1″ commonly found in mahogany, restored Steinway S’s are often refinished in black.
  • Model M 5ft 7″, normally in Mahogany; restored model M’s are often refinished in black. All with square tapered legs.
  • Model O 5ft 10” usually in Rosewood or Mahogany. Early model O’s had turned legs and later it changed to square tapered. Model O’s are about 40% of all Steinway pianos available. The best have a rich, full and powerful tone
  • Model A 6ft 3″ normally found in rosewood or mahogany, earlier ones with turned legs and later with square tapered. The best have a rich, full and powerful tone. (They make up for 20% of Steinway pianos)
  • Model B around 7ft, these are uncommon second hand pianos, and much sought after
  • Model D 8ft 10“, concert grands; older used ones usually need extensive reconditioning

black model o steinway grand pianos

A Steinway model O grand piano

Table of models


O5’10”1900  The Steinway model O is one of the more common models of Steinway in the UK. We often have several in stock.

Model Size Year introduced Information
S 5’1″ 1936

Information. The rarest size of used Steinway; out of 100 Steinways in the UK about one will be a model S.

 The main competitor to the S is the 4ft 11in Bluthner model IV baby grand which is much more common.

See our stocklist for availability.

M 5’6″, 5’6″ 3/4, 5’7″ 1911, 1914, 1918 Steinway model M, also known as the “medium grand” is a common grand that we have in stock. Highly recommended for medium to mid-large sized rooms. Often available in rosewood or more modern polyester black. A resonant mid-sized grand from the German manufacturer. See our stocklist for availability. Information
O 5’10 1/2 c1900 The model O is one of the most common Steinways available. Formerly manufactured in New York; manufactured in Hamburg from about 1900. More information
L 5’10 1/2″ 1923 Manufactured in New York. More information
A 6’1″ 1878  The A was the shortest model up to about 1900. The Steinway model A is a resonant mid-sized Steinway grand. Recommended for medium to large sized domestic settings. Mainly old-styled ones available in the UK with fretted music desk and elephant legs. Information
A II 6’2″ 1896 Formerly Manufactured in New York now manufactured in Hamburg from 1923. More information
A III 6’4″ 1/2 1913- 1947
B 6’11″, 6’10” 1872, 1884 The model B Steinway grand is an excellent piano suited for medium to large concert spaces or large domestic environments. The length makes for a clear tenor section and longer keys allow greater dynamic expression. More information
C 7’1″, 7’2″,
7’3″, 7’5″
1861, 1870,
1884, 1885
 Discontinued in 1913 but is occasionally produced in Hamburg from 1923. More information
D 8’5″, 8’6″, 8’9″,
8’10”, 8’10”
1859, 1869,
1876, 1884, 1915
 Information. Steinway model D is the largest Steinway grand piano. Used in many top concert halls and conservatories around the world. We do occasionally stock these. However, they are rare on the market and most concert halls sell them once they have been well used. Occasionally you can find modern model D’s for sale that were used as hire pianos.

Frequently asked questions


Is my Steinway worth restoring?

Almost every Steinway grand is worth restoring. Uprights vary in terms of investment value of restoration. Please inquire for a free valuation.

How can I maintain my Steinway?

Keep the room from being too dry or too damp. Use a damp cloth to clean wooden cases and barely damp for polyester. We do not recommend cleaning the dampers yourself, it is best to ask your tuner to do so

Blüthner Grand Pianos

bluthner grand piano for saleBluthner style IV

We normally stock at least three restored Blüthner grand pianos between 5ft and 6ft 3in long. If you’re thinking of buying a professionally reconditioned Blüthner grand piano then you’re getting a piano with a smooth, light touch (especially in the older “patent” actions models), warm tone and an aesthetically pleasing cabinet.

Blüthner patent action


bluthner grand pianos patent action

These are unique to Blüthner and date from about 1885 to 1915.

Photo taken of a Blüthner style 5 grand with a Blüthner patent action (See image) These are the older ones dating from about 1880 to 1924. The action is simpler in design than the normal roller action found in nearly all other pianos. It has the advantage of being smoother, usually lighter. The action doesn’t repeat as fast as the roller action, but this is not noticeable unless playing very fast repetition such as in Rapsody in Blue. Some restorers fit a modern action into the older pianos.

Standard roller action


bluthner grand pianos roller action1

Blüthner roller-action are commonly found after about 1920, though there is a cross-over period and some patent actions appear after this date.

These start from about 1920 onwards though most are from out about 1926. By far the most common is the style 4 baby grand, 4ft 11in, which is one of the best baby grands ever made. It has a smooth touch and fine “silky” tone. They are simple in style with plain music desk and square tapered legs. These cost about £3000 to £5000 (2014) unrestored and we sell them reconditioned from around £9500 to £18,500 (2014) fully restored and custom re-polished. We normally have one or two style 4 Blüthner baby grands in stock, though they are in great demand and becoming hard to find. The most common veneer/colour is mahogany.

patent_action_01

Patent action

roller_action_01

Roller action

Blüthner style 4 baby grand pianos


Many Blüthner style 4 baby grands from 1920 to 1939 need to have the “action standards” replaced as they form fissures and bow outwards, making correct regulation impossible. This work and action regulation costs about £1200+VAT (2014) provided someone has not previously attempted to repair the regulation without first replacing the standards. This second scenario is often the case, so the piano needs re-regulating and the cost will then be around £2300 +VAT (2014).

Comparison of Bluthner style 4a and style 4 small grand pianos


Blüthner grand pianos from about 1958


Unfortunately the “iron curtain” had an adverse effect on the Blüthner grand and the materials used weren’t always of good quality. Be careful when buying a Blüthner from this period.

Modern Blüthner grand pianos from about 1995


There are not many of these available, but they are generally of excellent quality, perhaps more suited to smaller rooms than the equivalent Steinway.

Models of Blüthner grand pianos found in the UK


Older Styles to about 1925 (mostly patent actions)

Style Comment
5 5ft 9in Rich tone with patent action; turned legs and fretted or slatted music desk.
They normally have a patent action (see above).
6 5ft 9in. Same as above with Aliquot stringing. Patent action
7 6ft 3in. Most are rosewood or black. Warm rich tone with superb bass and singing treble and tenor. Patent action
8 6ft 3in. The same as style 7 but with Aliquot stringing (see photo) Patent action
9 6ft 9in – 6 ft 11in. Rich tone with strong bass. Aliquot stringing; patent action
10 7ft 8in Small concert Grand.
11 9ft 2in Concert grand

New Styles From 1926 – roller actions

Style Comments
4 4ft 11in; popular small grand piano with a rich silky tone.
4a 5ft 5in; less common, the styling is the same as the style 4
12 6ft 3in. Replaced style 7 and 8 from about 1925 to 1945. The numbering is reversed from about 1945. Very few in the UK
11 Becomes model 1 Length: 9’2″ (280 cm)
style 10 becomes model 2 Length: 7’8″ (238 cm)
9 Becomes model 4 Length: 6’10 ” (210 cm)
8 Becomes model 6 Length: 6’3″ (191 cm)
4a Becomes model 10 Length: 5’5 ” (166 cm)
4 Becomes model 11 Length: 5’1″ (154cm)

Veneers/colours


Model Size No. in UK Finish
11 154cm 1,100 35% mahogany, 35% black, 20% walnut, 10% other
10 166cm 550 30% mahogany, 40% black, 20% walnut, 10% other
6 191cm 250 25% mahogany, 55% black, 10% walnut, 10% other
4 210cm 50 85% black, 15% other
2 238cm 40 90% black, 10% other
1 280cm 20 99% black, 1% other

Patent Aliquot scaling


Bluthner designed a 4th string to enhance the power of their characteristically ‘soft’ treble. The string is elevated which means the hammer is not struck by the hammer. Instead the strings played transfer the vibration through the laws of physics of sound vibrations. Practically it is harder to tune as the tuner needs to pluck this extra string.

Small Upright Pianos

In the UK there are still many fine small upright pianos made by English firms from about 1960 to 1990. These are generally far better made than the same size piano made today, as from about 1920 to 1985 (uprights from about 1960 to 1985) many British firms specialised in making small pianos. With much competition, high skill levels and great demand, the quality of the best ones was extremely high. The most common good ones are by Knight and Welmar with some of the small uprights made by Kemble, Rogers, Broadwood and Chappell also being well made. As a rule, these English pianos were far better made than the equivalent new ones from the Far East. This is because most of the far eastern small uprights are scaled down copies of the taller ones, and often produce an uneven and brash thin tone. Recent examples of this are the Yamaha E108 and LU101 and B1 which in our opinion don’t have a pleasing tone. Small modern upright pianos date from about 1960 to the present day and the best period of manufacture was from about 1965 to about 1990. Some of these can be quite worn, so much advice is needed before purchasing. Another fine small upright found in the UK that we like very much is by Fazer, made in Finland from about 1975 to 1990.

small upright welmar pianos
1970 Welmar upright piano

Welmar upright pianos


Piano advice


Do you need book holders?

If you use thick music books, then a pair of book holders can be fitted to most small pianos. Older uprights usually have them, and modern ones. Most serious musicians require them.

Practice pedal

Some uprights are fitted with a third practice pedal, and we can fit this to most other pianos in the form of a lever under the keyboard. This inserts a piece of felt between the hammer and the strings, making it very quiet. This may be useful if you have thin walls or need to practice in the same room as others, but the tone is not as good as when played normally.

Wooden floor?

It’s most important to note that as the soundboard vibrates the sound bounces back off a wooden floor, making the piano sound much louder than it does on a carpeted one. If you’re buying a soft toned piano such as an old style Bluthner then this may not be a problem. However if you’re buying a bright sounding modern Yamaha or Bosendorfer then it’s likely you’ll need to put a rug under the piano, and may also need to introduce other absorbent material to the room such as drapes or tapestries. In this way you should be able to arrive at the ideal acoustic. [NB if you have underfloor heating you will have to be extremely vigilant to keep the temperature low and the humidity above 40% and ideally 50%.]

Is there enough leg room?

Leg room on small pianos is limited. If you are tall then you will probably have to use a chair which is lower than a piano stool, or an adjustable stool at minimum height. small modern uprights are usually about 62cm from the floor to the underside of the keyboard. By comparison tall Yamaha U3 upright has leg room of 62cm whereas a German Steingraeber 118 has 70cm and an older Bluthner 65cm. A small modern Zender has only 58.5cm!

For baby grand pianos please click here

Used Yamaha Upright Pianos

Comparison between Yamaha U1H and U3H upright pianos

Feurich 122 vs Yamaha U3H – surprising discovery!

Introduction


Our main used Yamaha upright pianos for sale comprises mainly of fine quality Yamaha U1G, U1H, U3G and U3H upright pianos. They are all in excellent condition, the case are normally good or in pristine condition and are mostly made between 1965 and 1985, a period we consider to be the pinnacle of tone quality for Yamaha pianos. Of the more modern Yamahas we only stock the mid and top range ones, and don’t stock new Yamahas, preferring Kawai, Yamaha’s main Japanese competitor. All second hand piano prices include a 5 year guarantee.

yamaha u3h

Yamaha U3H

A brief history of Yamaha pianos


yamaha logo on the soundboard

It’s from around 1966 that we first see Yamaha pianos in Europe. These early models are the ones that sound the most like German pianos, with a good deep mellow tone throughout the range. They are more expensively constructed with top quality soundboards, excellent hammers, wooden pedal mechanisms on uprights and mostly wooden action parts. As the Korean and later the Chinese factories began to produce large numbers of pianos in competition with Yamaha, so the Yamaha piano started to be made more economically. Wooden parts were replaced by plastic or aluminium, though lately there has been a return to wooden action flanges. The tone also started to lack the rich depth that it previously had. The gradual brightening of tone is evident until about 1990, When Yamaha brought out what they called a hand-built piano, grands starting at £28,000 and uprights at £7,699.

Models of Yamaha pianos


Yamaha now operate a two tier system with their basic grands and uprights, usually not made in Japan, and the top range series. These are the Yamaha S4A Grand Piano, Yamaha S6A Grand Piano, Yamaha CFIIIS Grand Piano, Yamaha SU118C upright Piano and Yamaha SU7 upright Piano. Considering that a Yamaha G3/C3 grand piano cost about £4,500 new in 1971 (600,000yen), the equivalent new price according to inflation since then would be £31,000! A Yamaha U1D upright piano cost about £1500 new in 1965 (197,000yen). The equivalent new price today (2012) would be over £25,000! The early Yamahas are all of guaranteed high quality. Since about 1985 they developed a two tier system, with the top quality Yamahas still being made in Japan but others increasingly being made in different countries, mainly Indonesia and China. There is now so much variely of model and number that it’s difficult to keep track. We recommend, if buying a new Yamaha or one from 1985 onwards, that you seek the advice of a piano tuner who is familiar with them.

su7 used yamaha upright pianos Yamaha SU7

Yamaha “silent system” pianos on upright pianos


u1h pedals on a used yamaha upright pianos Yamaha U1h with a practice pedal

We recommend buying an upright piano with a practice pedal rather than one with a Yamaha “Silent” system. This is because the touch on the Yamaha silent piano is compromised by the bar which comes between the hammers and the strings. As a result, the “Let off”, which is the distance from the strings which the hammer reaches before the player looses control of it, increases from 2-3mm on most good ordinary pianos to 6-9mm on “silent” pianos. We find this makes soft playing more difficult both in normal and silent mode, thereby reducing the range of expression, and also gives the action a “choppy” feel. The traditional practice pedal found on most Yamaha uprights before about 1990 is ideal if for instance you live in a flat and need to practice very quietly.

Buying a used Yamaha grand or upright


We’ve been selling second hand Yamaha grand and upright pianos for over 20 years. They are always little used, and the case and loops on the uprights are checked and repaired if necessary. Bass strings are also replaced if they have lost their tone. We then finely regulate and tune them, and guarantee them for 5 years. To view our pianos for sale please view our stocklist.

u3h yamaha piano hammers

Yamaha U1H Hammers

A word of warning


Kawai GL10Kawai GL10

Unfortunately, as we have said above, not all models of Yamaha are good pianos. When we come across one we think you should definitely avoid, we will try to list it here. To start this list, we recommend you steer clear of the very common secondhand Yamaha E108 made from about 1985 to 2003, and also the second hand Yamaha LU101 made around 1984, which can be reasonable but is variable. We find these models often sound brash, patchy, lifeless and the tuning is not adequately stable. The new Yamaha GB1 baby grand sounds reasonable at first but unfortunately shows up as not being well made when it comes to tuning and maintaining it. Economy has been the watchword in making this piano. They have even left out the hugely advantageous adjustable music desk which is standard on practically all baby grand pianos. If you’re looking for a budget priced baby grand then you’re much better off choosing a restored baby grand from the 1920s or 30s, when competition in baby grand making was strong which served to push up the quality. The tone of the best of these pianos can be exquisite. For a new baby grand we recommend the Kawai GL10.

Table of Used Yamaha Upright Pianos (Collected from “Japanese Piano atlas”)


Date of manufacture Model Dimensions (WxHxD) Colour(s) Weight No. pedals
1972 – 1980 U1H 150 x 121 x 610 Black polyester 217kg 3
1982 – 1987 U1A 150 x 121 x 610 Black Polyester 218kg 3
1982 – 1987 U3A 154 x 131 x 650 Black Polyester 242kg 3
1982 – 1988 UX1 150 x 121 x 610 Black Polyester 219kg 3
1975 – 1980 UX 154 x 131 x 650 Black Polyester 250kg 3
1982 – 1988 UX3 154 x 131 x 650 Black Polyester 242kg 3
1980 – 1982 YUX 154 x 131 x 650 Black Polyester 240kg 3

To view our stock of Yamaha upright pianos please visit our stocklist

Wendl & Lung Pianos

wendl and lung pianos logo

Advice to help you choose, buy or restore a feurich piano

Wendl & Lung pianos


From 2011 Wendl & Lung have joined forces with Feurich and are using the Feurich name. For details of Feurich pianos click here. Wendl & Lung are an Austrian firm. They have a dedicated team of young musicians and technical staff whose goal is to produce top quality grand and upright pianos at affordable prices. From 2011 Julius Feurich joined the team. The factory is in China (the second largest in 2011), but the piano is designed by and under the strict quality control of European technicians.

The tone

The tone of the pianos is rich and mellow, with a subtle “European” quality, and the action smooth and responsive. We hold stock of the Feurich Professional I grand piano, Feurich Professional II, and also the upright 122 Universal. They provide an excellent alternative to the new Yamaha range, are more subtle in tone and are the choice of an increasing number of musicians. See also our comparison of Wendl & Lung uprights and grands with Yamaha.

Models of Feurich pianos

Professional II, 178cm

This Feurich grand piano stands out from its equivalent competitors not only on tonal quality but also on price and construction. Quality checks are carried out in Austria before it is shipped to the UK (2011 onwards. From 2012 Feurich have a base in the UK too where they are further checked and toned). Its soundboard is made with solid spruce held together in a cast iron frame.

Feurich 178 grand piano
Feurich 178
feurich 161 grand piano
Feurich 161

Professional I, 161cm

The 161 Feurich professional 1 is the most popular Feurich grand piano of its class. It is practical in size and maintains the stylistic design, build and tonal quality of the Professional II. Recommended by many for its good tonality and great price. This rivals most equivalent priced new baby grand pianos and we highly recommend it. This piano has been well constructed with a solid spruce sound board and polyester finish.

Universal, 122cm

As its name suggests, the 122 – Universal appeals to players of all levels, from Classical to Jazz. It has a subtle “European” tone, and very responsive touch.

Feurich 122 upright piano
Feurich 122
Feurich Pedal
Feurich fourth harmonic paper

Feurich’s unique fourth “Harmonic” pedal

The pedal is half depressed, the dampers lift off until a note is played, upon which that damper falls down on the strings, causing the note to shut off. Meanwhile all the other strings continue to vibrate in sympathy creating a sound resembling playing the piano in a large room such as a church. For more details, please see www.feurich.com and www.wendl-lung.com

Possible finishes (Please enquire for W&L prices and availability)

Finishes Professional I (161cm Grand) Professional II (178cm Grand) 122 Universal (Upright)
Black Polished Y Y Y
White Polihed Y Y Y
Mahogany Polished Y Y Y
Bordeaux Polished Y
Walnut Polished Y
Black Satin Y
Cherry Satin Y
Mahogany Satin Y
Walnut Satin Y
Beech Satin Y
Maple Satin Y
Bordeaux Satin Y

Used Yamaha Grand Pianos

Comparison between Yamaha S6 and Steinway Model B grand pianos

Brief history of Yamaha pianos including models and prices


It’s from 1966 that we first see Yamaha pianos in Europe. These early models sound the most like German pianos, with a good deep mellow tone throughout the range. They are more expensively constructed with top quality soundboards, excellent hammers, wooden pedal mechanisms on uprights and mostly wooden action parts. As the Korean and later the Chinese factories began to produce large numbers of pianos in competition with Yamaha, so the Yamaha piano started to be made more economically. Wooden parts were replaced by plastic or aluminium, though lately there has been a return to wooden action flanges. The tone also started to lack the rich depth that it previously had. The gradual brightening of tone is evident until about 1990, when Yamaha brought out what they called a hand-built piano, grands starting at £28,000 and uprights at £7,699. Yamaha now operate a two-tier system with top quality pianos made in Japan and their basic and mid-range grands and uprights made in Indonesia, the UK and elsewhere. For more information please view our main Yamaha piano page

 yamaha grand Piano

Buying a used Yamaha grand piano


u1h yamaha upright piano by yamaha pianos

We’ve been selling Used Yamaha grand pianos for over 20 years and sell over 10 used Yamaha grands each year. They are carefully regulated, the bass strings are replaced if they have lost their tone. We then finely run some final checks before tuning them and guarantee them for 5 years.

Yamaha GB1


The new Yamaha GB1 baby grand sounds reasonable at first but unfortunately shows up as not being well made when it comes to tuning and maintaining it. Economy has been the watchword in making this piano. They have also left out the hugely advantageous adjustable music desk which is standard on practically all baby grand pianos. If you’re looking for a budget priced baby grand then you’re much better off choosing a baby grand from the 1920s or 30s, during this time Yamaha were in competition to make the standard of baby grands to a very high quality; the baby grands are also a good choice if you have a small spaces. Baby grands also hold a good tone and provide good performance considering they are much cheaper. Alternatively, if you prefer to buy a new piano, we recommend the respected Austrian firm Wendl and Lung (merged with Feurich in May 2011, whose name they are now using). Their 161cm and 178cm grand pianos are finely designed and very well finished off.

gb1 yamaha baby grand piano by yamaha pianos

Roberts Pianos Yamaha S6B hand built 6ft 11in grand piano

Most common used Yamaha grand pianos in the UK in order of length:


Model Date of manufacture Dimensions (WxHxD) Colour Weight No. pedals
G1B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 160 Black polyester 285kg 3
G1E 1990 149 x 101 x 161 Black Polyester 290kg 3
G2E 1971 – 1985 148 x 101 x 169 Black Polyester 300kg 2
G2A 1985 – 1988 148 x 101 x 169 Black Polyester 300kg 3
G2B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 169 Black Polyester 300kg 3
G2E 1990 149 x 101 x 173 Black Polyester 300kg 3
G3E 1971 – 1990 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 310kg. 315kg (1990 onwards) 2 (3 from 1990 onwards)
G3A 1985 – 1988 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 310kg 3
G3B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 310kg 3
G3E 1990 149 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 315kg 3
G5E 1971 – 1985 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 330kg 2
G5A 1985 – 1988 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 330kg 3
G5B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 330kg 3
G5E 1990 149 x 101 x 200 Black Polyester 340kg 3
C3 1979 – 1985 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 335kg 2
C3A 1985 – 1988 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 315kg 3
C3B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 183 Black Polyester 315kg 3
C3E 1990 149 x 101 x 186 Black Polyester 320kg 3
C5 1979 – 1985 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 357kg 3
C5A 1985 – 1988 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 330kg 3
C5B 1988 – 1990 148 x 101 x 197 Black Polyester 335kg 3
C5E 1990 154 x 102 x 212 Black Polyester 380kg 3
C7 1979 – 1983 155 x 102 x 223 Black Polyester 415kg 3
C7A 1983 – 1988 155 x 102 x 223 Black Polyester 395kg 3
C7B 1988 – 1990 155 x 102 x 227 Black Polyester 397kg 3
C7E 1990 155 x 102 x 227 Black Polyester 330kg 3

To see our stock of Yamaha pianos and more please visit our stocklist