Roberts Pianos Oxford - Portsmouth

Roberts Pianos - Advice for purchasing grand pianos Steinway, Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Bechstein.

Brief advice on buying a grand piano

Page created Dec 2005. Revised November 2007

Are Grand pianos better than uprights?

In general grand pianos are better than uprights to play for the following reasons:

- the action has better control than an upright action, allowing the player more sensitivity. This is because the upright "throws" the hammer towards the string, whereas on a grand piano it is a "lifting" movement, so perfect control is maintained until the very last moment.

- the soft pedal is genuinely "una corda", meaning that there should be a significant change in tone when used.

- the player can be facing the audience or other players instead of facing the wall.

- grand pianos over 4ft 10in in length have longer strings and a bigger soundboard than most uprights, giving them a richer tone.

- the music desk is adjustable (except on some cheaper modern baby grand pianos such as the Yamaha GB1) by sliding it forwards or backwards, accommodating both short- and long-sighted people.

Are you tall - is there enough leg room?
Leg room on pianos varies from 60 to 70cm . Grands and small modern uprights are usually about 62cm from the floor to the under side of the keyboard. With grands, this can be increased by about 3cm by using glass caster cups; the angle of the pedals may then need adapting as these are raised up too. A Yamaha U3 upright has leg room of 62cm whereas a German Steingraeber 118 has 70cm and an older Bluthner 65cm. A small modern Zender has only 58.5cm!

Do you need book holders?
If you use thick music books, then a couple of book holders can be fitted. Older uprights usually have them, and modern ones and grands usually dont. Most serious musicians request them.

Baby Grand Pianos

Baby grand pianos are usually defined as 5ft 7in or under. The best restored makes of baby grand pianos are, in rough order of availability:

Bluthner, Richard Lipp, Yamaha, Steinway, Welmar, Chappell and Fazioli.

Challen, Cramer, Broadwood, Rogers and Steck are also very common. These baby grand pianos are more varied in quality but can also be very good. There are hundreds of other makes of baby grand pianos too, but we've listed the most common good ones.

Boudoir Grand Pianos

From about 5ft 7in to 7ft. The longer ones are sometimes called "Drawing room grands". These have longer strings and a larger action, so they tend to sound and play better. The best restored makes f boudoir grand pianos are, in rough order of availability: Yamaha, Bechstein, Steinway, Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Kawai and Fazioli. These are far superior to cheaply made modern grand pianos

Concert Grand Pianos

From about 7ft 2in to 9ft 6in..Manufacturers always put a lot more time and effort into making concert grand pianos, also employing their top technicians to work on them. They have long strings and a large action, so sound and play powerfully. The best restored makes of concert grand pianos are, in rough order of availability: Yamaha, Steinway, Bosendorfer, Kawai and Fazioli. There are many other good makes of concert grand, but I've listed the most common.

New Grand Pianos
We don't recommend most modern grands which sell for up to about £12,000 RRP, as they tend to be of inferior quality and develop problems after a few years. There are a few exceptions to this, and we currently have in stock new pianos from Wendl and Lung, a serious Austrian firm. Pianos from the above makers made between about 1890 and 1940 are almost all of exceptionally high quality of manufacture.

Rough price list

Here we list the most common German and English grand pianos, in rough order of availability in the UK. For a comprehensive list of the most common makes of grand piano available in the UK please see the restoration page

Most common top quality German grands (in approximate order of availability)

Make	Model	Length	Year	un-restored	restored
Bechstein	Model A	6ft	1902 - 1925	£1,000 - £3,000	£9,000-£12,000
Usually black or rosewood. A beautiful all round grand with A smooth action and rich tone.
Bechstein	Model B	6ft 7in	1902 - c1925	£1,000-£3,000	£9,000-£12,000
Usually black or rosewood. A beautiful all round grand. Deeper tone than model A.
Bluthner boudoir grand	Patent action	5ft 5in to 7ft	1880-c1915	£1,500-£2,500	£8,500 - £15,000
Usually black or rosewood. Very rich warm tone, mellower than Bechstein Smooth light touch
Bluthner baby grand	Roller action	4ft 11in to 6ft	1915-1935	£2,000-£4,000	£9,000-£16,000
Baby grand usually walnut, mahogany or black. Warm silky tone and smooth touch.
Steinway boudoir grand	Model O	5ft 10in		£5,000-£8,000	£15,000-£27,000
Varied styles of casework full all round piano with rich tone .
Steinway boudoir grand	Model A	6ft 2in		£5,000-£8,000	£15,000- £27,000
Varied styles of casework full all round piano with rich tone. Deeper tone than model O

Other common quality German grand pianos:

Bechstein models V and IV grand pianos which pre-date the models A, B and C are also very common. Please see the Bechstein page for details.

Richard Lipp grand pianos are also excellent. The most common are the 5ft and 5ft 8in baby grands.

Most common restored English grands and baby grands

Make	Model	Length	Year	un-restored	restored
Challen baby grand	Various - plain case	4ft 3in to 6ft	1915-1960	£500 - £1,000	£3000 - 5000
Usually Mahogany or walnut. Very varied. The best have a bright singing tone
Chappell boudoir grands	"New style"	5ft to 6ft 10in	1895 - 1915	£600 - £1,200	£5000 - £8,500
Usually figured rosewood. Attractive with rich bright tone and smooth action
Chappell baby grands	Baby grand	4ft 6in to 5ft	1920 - 1935	£500 - £1,000	£4,000 - £6,000
Usually mahogany. Consistently fine strong tone for a baby grand
Broadwood baby and boudoir grands	Extremely varied	All sizes from 5ft to 8ft
Pre 1890s ones very common and best avoided unless very well reconditioned. 1890 to 1910, some excellent ones, especially the "Barless" grand. Of this make you will find some of the best and some of the worst secondhand pianos available. Broadwood also made some of the most beautiful grands.
Other English makes of grand and baby grands which we don't often buy and sell: (in rough order of availability):
Steck	Model A	6ft 2in		£5,000-£8,000	£15,000- £25,000
Older ones (1900 - 1915) can be excellent. 1920s and 30s ones vary and often develop loose tuning pins.
Cramer -Well made baby grands
Allison -Well made baby grands

There are hundreds of English makes of grand and baby grand pianos. It's advisable to stick to the well known ones as many firms which made good upright pianos had unsuccessful attempts at grands.

Modern German Grands (post 1950)

These are much less common on the second hand market. The best ones that come up relatively frequently are: Steinway models O (5ft 10in and B (6ft 11in). Model (5ft 7in) and model S (5ft 1in) baby grands are good but not so common. For full details see the Steinway website

Avoid modern Bluthners made from about 1960 to about 1990 as these were made in East Germany while Germany was divided or just after reunification, and the materials used are not always good.

Other less common modern German grands are (in order of availability) Bechstein, Bösendorfer, August Förster (not recommended - too variable), Ibach, Zimmerman (not recommended) and Schimmell. Please inquire if you'd like further information about any ot these.

Yamaha and Kawai grands

These are the two most common makes of good Japanese grand pianos. Yamahas are by far the most common good grand piano on the world market. For details of Yamaha grand pianos please see the Yamaha page. Older Yamaha and Kawai grands from about 1970 to 1985 are excellent and more consistent than more recent ones, with the exception of the top of the range newer ones which are also excellent.

or full stocklist, please click on TODAY'S STOCKLIST

Some previous and present used Grands in stock:
Click on the photos for more information

Yamaha G3E

Bechstein A

Wendl and Lung

Some of our previous and present grands in stock:

C.Bechstein Grand pianos
C.Bechstein

Bechstein Grand pianos
Bechstein

SALES HISTORY
Since 1983 we have sold pianos throughout the UK and abroad. UK sales from 2000 have been to the following locations:

Aberdeen, Abingdon, Amersham, Ascot, Aylesbury, Banbury, Bangor, Bedford, Bedfordshire, Berkshire, Bicester, Birmingham, Brackley, Bognor Regis, Bournemouth, Brighton, Bristol, Buckingham, Buckinghamshire, Burford, Chesterfield, Chesterton, Chichester, Chipping Norton, Chiswick, Colchester, Cosham, Coventry, Croydon, Deal, Dorchester, Dorset, Drayton, Dunstable, Ealing, Edinburgh, Emsworth, Essex, Fareham, Faringdon, Forest Gate, Gloucester, Goring, Gosport, Great Milton, Hambledon, Hampshire, Harpenden, Hartley Witney, Haslemere, Hayling Island, Heathfield, Horsham, Ilkley, Inverness, Isle of Wight, Kent, Kings Lynn, Leamington Spa, Leicester, Lincolnshire, Central London, West London, North London, South London, Maidenhead, Malvern, Manchester, Marlow, Meon Valley, Milton, Newbury, Northampton, Northants, Norwich, Oxford, Oxfordshire, Petersfield, Portsmouth, Reading, Rugby, Sheffield, Shrewsbury, Solihull, Somerset, Southampton, Southsea, Stafford, Stratford, Stoke Newington, Suffolk, Surbiton, Surrey, Stratford on Avon, Tangmere, Thame, Thetford, Titchfield, Tring, Tunbridge Wells, Twickenham, Twyford, Virginia Water, Wallingford, Wantage, Warwick, Waterlooville, Wendover, West Sussex, Winchester, Wimbledon, Windsor, Witney, Wokingham, Woodstock, Woolwich, York.